From hall@macs.mxim.com Sun Apr 2 22:24:31 EDT 1995 Article: 8871 of misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.i.net!news.world.net!macs!macs!not-for-mail From: hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite) Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? Date: 28 Mar 1995 06:39:52 -0800 Organization: Maxim Integrated Products, Beaverton OR. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com> References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: macs.mxim.com In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: >I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage. >However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, Very stable. The carbonic acid in soda is rather corrosive so these containers must be stable to stand up against it. They are excellent for long term storage. >and what I should treat the water with to make it last longer. First, start with good pure water. If it comes from a municipal system in the US it will already have most junk removed and the pH adjusted to the point that chlorine will be an effective disinfectant. Under these conditions about a drop of chlorine bleach per 2 liter bottle will keep it safe for drinking. If you obtain your water from an unknown source use iodine for disinfection. The best way to do this is to use PolarPure (registered trademark) or the equivalent and follow the directions. Alternatively you can just keep the water in *absolute* darkness. All the nasties need a source of energy to grow, that source being either already existing organic matter or light. In the absence of light once all organic matter is consumed the microbes will all die of starvation. However if any light reaches the water some of the little critters will grow by photosynthesis and make food for others so you can get a bioculture growing, possibly including some disease causing organisms. Boiling of course is a good disinfection technique, but it does nothing to prevent future microbe growth except that it reduces initial stocks. If you can bring your water to boiling temperature inside a sealed container and keep it sealed it should stay safe. One way to do this is to use ordinary home canning techniques and just "can" your water in Mason jars. I don't think I would trust soda bottles for this. From hunter@kaiwan.com Sun Apr 2 22:25:56 EDT 1995 Article: 8874 of misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.caren.net!news.join.ad.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!wnoc-sfc-news!venus.sun.com!olivea!rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail From: hunter@kaiwan.com (James Collins) Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? Date: 28 Mar 1995 18:28:15 -0800 Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338) Lines: 31 Sender: hunter@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Message-ID: References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com> <1995Mar28.135250@titan.sfasu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com In article <1995Mar28.135250@titan.sfasu.edu>, f_griffith@titan.sfasu.edu wrote: >In article <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com>, hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes: >> In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU writes: >> >>>and what I should treat the water with to make it last longer. >> >> First, start with good pure water. If it comes from a municipal >> system in the US it will already have most junk removed and the pH >> adjusted to the point that chlorine will be an effective >> disinfectant. Under these conditions about a drop of chlorine >> bleach per 2 liter bottle will keep it safe for drinking. >> > >I've seen this suggestion before and wonder why the need to add the >chlorine. Didn't the municipal sysytem already treat it with chlorine? I think it just knocks down the nasties. Doesn't kill them all. When the chlorine fades, guess who comes back? :) You are supposed to rotate your stored water after six months, but I imagine that as long as you put chlorine in for storage, and some more before you use it, you wouldn't have too many problems. Its your life though... :) After the big January earthquake here, I had bottles of water that were a bit more than a year old. I purified them and drank them without any side effects (other than an imagination that was insisting I was committing suicide... :) :) :) ). I rotate them now, with the thought that, in an emergency, I really didn't need more to worry about... Oh, by the way, it *does* help to have a filter that can at least take out the chlorine (like a Brita jug). It doesn't do anything about nasties in the water, but it sure makes the water taste better. Chlorine is nasty... James From richard@mv.mv.com Sun Apr 2 22:27:25 EDT 1995 Article: 8930 of misc.survivalism Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!mv!mv.mv.com!richard From: richard@mv.mv.com (Richard Meyers) Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: mv.mv.com Sender: usenet@mv.mv.com (Usenet News) Organization: MV Communications, Inc. Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:52:54 GMT References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> Lines: 34 rickd@primenet.com (Rick De Castro) writes: >In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) writes: >>From: IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) >>Subject: Water Storage - Liter bottles? >>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 21:53 >>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage. >>However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should >>treat the water with to make it last longer. >>Anybody with storage advice? >>TC >I just fill them and keep them under the sink - and rotate the water every six >months or so. YMMV Adding a teaspoon of 6% food grade hydrogen peroxide might also prove useful. It's available through The Family News (800) 284-6261. They have a catalog/ newsletter most should find interesting. Hydrogen peroxide is a very effective antibiotic, antifungal, and antiviral agent. I personally consider it _MUCH_ better than the various chlorine-based chemicals currently being used in our water supply. Bubbling ozone gas (assuming you have a machine to generate it) is also good. It can be done just before sealing the bottle and/or just before drinking. Many people with livestock find that adding hydrogen peroxide to their animals' water supply (50-100 ppm) give good results (helps keep animals disease free). In a survival situation, healthy livestock can be very valuable. From sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov Sun Apr 2 22:29:09 EDT 1995 Article: 8895 of misc.survivalism Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!cs.utk.edu!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news From: sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov (Keith W. Sheffield) Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? In-Reply-To: aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 06:44:49 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 36 Sender: news@rsg1.er.usgs.gov Organization: EROS Data Center, USGS X-Newsreader: (ding) Gnus v0.40 References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:36 GMT >>>>> "W" == W Joseph Cooklin writes: In article aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes: > In a previous posting, Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) writes: >> In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>, >> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU says... >>> I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage. >>> However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should treat >>> the water with to make it last longer. >>> >>> Anybody with storage advice? >>> >>> TC > I try to keep on hand a 3 day supply of water (two 2 liter bottles per > person per day, I also count my dog as a person), so for 5 people that would > be 30 bottles. We always get more bottles, so we pitch the oldest every now > and then. We also dump them all every 3 months and refill them. The 3 month > old water does not taste bad or even too flat, so I'm pretty sure its still > ok. > For larger capacity storage, you could use food grade plastic barrels and > pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water heater, > that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water (somebody > else's idea, I can't take credit for it). So one would just cut a couple holes in the top and cement some cpvc pipe to the barrels and hook that into the existing lines? Cool. Another side effect of this would be that if there was an existing heat source near the barrels, the water heater wouldn't have to heat the water as much. > -- Joseph Cooklin -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Keith W. Sheffield Programmer, Software Development Hughes STX Corporation EROS Data Center Mundt Federal Building Sioux Falls, SD 57198 att: 605-594-6838 email:sheff@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov fax: 605-594-6589 Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government. ________________________________________________________________________________ Geek Code v2.1 GCS d(--) H-- s:++ g+ p1+ au a- w-- v C++++ UI++$ P+ L+>+++ N++ E+>++ W--- V-- po+++ Y+ t+ 5 j R- G? tv++ b+ D+(++) B e++ u+ h---- f- r+++ n--- y++++ From Ben Farmer Sun Apr 2 22:32:03 EDT 1995 Article: 8900 of misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet From: Ben Farmer Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? Date: 29 Mar 1995 07:14:32 GMT Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3lb1co$fcq@tattoo.sccsi.com> References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: tty17.com1.oknet.com X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) > IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) writes: > I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage. IMHO this is a good idea for -part- of a water reserve program. The plastic pop bottles are designed to be durable and to not let anything leech through the plastic to destroy the taste. Four drops of pure chlorine bleech will keep the water for at least five years if kept in a cool dark location. In the average conditions it will take two bottles per person per day. A good book with this and much more info on the subject of surviving hard times is--- "Preparing for Emergencies" by James McKeever Omega Publications P.O. Box 4130 Medford, Oregon 97501 From jtz@roadrunner.com Sun Apr 2 22:33:55 EDT 1995 Article: 8960 of misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!192!jtz From: jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai) Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:43:20 GMT Organization: Zoltai Consulting Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial131.roadrunner.com X-Newsreader: VersaTerm Link v1.1 In Article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>, IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) wrote: >I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage. ... >Anybody with storage advice? I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get large polyethylene barrels that are DOT spec for foods (including water), with liquid tight seals. Light tight, too. A supplier by the name of National Bag (800-247-6000) carries them, among others. Look for "open head drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at $76.40. The trick is keeping the water fresh. Hooking the drum(s) up to your water supply, like at the hot water tank, is one approach, but that implies building a system designed to be constantly pressurized. A simpler approach is to use the drum for gardening water, or hydroponics water, whatever. This forces you to keep adding new water to the supply, thereby keeping it fresh. Depends on how much work you're willing to go through to set up the water storage system in the first place. Of course, if you're storing water in a bunker or other bug-out location, then you may want to add iodine as mentioned in this forum for long term storage. The drums are light tight, though, so there won't be much growth going on inside. Don't try to store a year's worth of water; make sure you have a stable source of water available, then have a good set of water filters on hand, enough to filter one to five years worth of water. - John T. Zoltai - Consulting in business information systems. "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one time or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had been involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and _could_have_, according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold." -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago. From sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov Sun Apr 2 22:35:32 EDT 1995 Article: 8934 of misc.survivalism Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news From: sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov (Keith W. Sheffield) Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles? In-Reply-To: jtz@roadrunner.com's message of Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:43:20 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 24 Sender: news@rsg1.er.usgs.gov Organization: EROS Data Center, USGS X-Newsreader: (ding) Gnus v0.40 References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:01:56 GMT >>>>> "John" == John T Zoltai writes: In article jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai) writes: > I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up > carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get > large polyethylene barrels that are DOT spec for foods (including water), > with liquid tight seals. Light tight, too. A supplier by the name of > National Bag (800-247-6000) carries them, among others. Look for "open head > drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at > $76.40. Emergency Essentials in Utah (800-999-1863) has food grade 25-55 gal drums. The 55 gal drum is about $56. They carry lots of other stuff too. Ranging from 72-hr kits, camping supplies, books, water filters, dehydrated food, MREs, etc. > - John T. Zoltai - Consulting in business information systems. > "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one time > or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had been > involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and _could_have_, > according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold." -- Aleksandr > Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Keith W. Sheffield Programmer, Software Development Hughes STX Corporation EROS Data Center Mundt Federal Building Sioux Falls, SD 57198 att: 605-594-6838 email:sheff@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov fax: 605-594-6589 Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government. ________________________________________________________________________________ Geek Code v2.1 GCS d(--) H-- s:++ g+ p1+ au a- w-- v C++++ UI++$ P+ L+>+++ N++ E+>++ W--- V-- po+++ Y+ t+ 5 j R- G? tv++ b+ D+(++) B e++ u+ h---- f- r+++ n--- y++++