Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Posion Ivy- Everything You Wanted To Know-- From: Ron Rushing Date: 21 May 94 21:23:02 CST Lines: 454 I found this doccument in my files. Its a compilation of several items from here and there- Appolgies to any authors whos' names were inadvertantly deleted-- =================================== Subject: Re: Poison Ivy, Oak, etc. Date: 1 Jun 92 16:30:07 GMT * Poison Oak, Poison Ivy, and Poison Sumac do pretty much the same thing to you. There is heated debate among botanists about whether Poison Oak and Poison Ivy really the same species. Poison Sumac is at least closely related. * They hurt you through an oil that transfers to your skin, or which you can inhale from the fumes of the burning plant. The oil doesn't wash off with plain water. Ordinary soap usually doesn't do it either. Some people claim to be immune to the irritation from this oil. A subset of these have rolled around in Poison Ivy to prove it. A subset of these have subsequently come down with severe cases of the rash. It would be prudent to avoid Poison Ivy. * The best thing I've found to deal with Poison Ivy is a product called "Technu Poison Oak and Ivy Cleanser" I found in the first-aid section of the drug store. It's a liquid soap that can be used to try and wash out the irritating oil before or after the rash develops (sooner is better). One caution that isn't sufficiently emphasized in the directions: The stuff has a mild anesthetic effect. This makes it possible to wash/scratch the affected area too vigorously. This breaks down the skin's ability to hold together. The effect is like a second-degree burn or the skin underneath a blister. Very painful, and now you have to treat it like a burn, with all the attendant danger of infection, etc. Keep the washing with the Technu gentle, and you should have no problem. Control: -------- 1. The darn stuff grows roots all over the place, just like lots of ivy. Each section seems to be able to grow without much help from the momma plant, once it gets going. That means your ordinary weed killers won't have as much effect on it as you would like. So what if it dies here, it just keeps going over there, under those rocks. We've used Roundup, and the long term effect seems to be that the ivy backs off, waits for everything else that the Roundup killed to decay, and then fills up the space vacated by its wimpy dead friends. Other weed killers, the kind you wouldn't want to have around your horses, may do better. We don't know. 2. You can rip it out by the roots. You'll need equipment and a method. Put on old clothes and tall rubber boots. Put on rubber gloves and coveralls. Let your beard grow a few days if you can, too. Wear a hat, preferably one that protects your ears. Put leather garden gloves over the rubber gloves. Rip the ivy out, being careful not to get it on your face. DON'T scratch any itches, DON'T slap mosquitos, DON'T try to get that little black fly that's starting to munch on your eyeball. Goggles or a beekeeper's bonnet might be helpful, you know. Put all the ivy in a gubbidge bag in a gubbidge bucket, and tie it up. Don't touch the bag again without gloves. To undress: Take off the garden gloves and throw them away, or drop them right into the washer. NOW WASH YOUR HANDS, that is, wash the rubber gloves. With the rubber gloves still on, remove the coveralls and the boots. The coveralls go right into the washer, along with your hat. Wash the boots. Remove the rest of your clothing, and put it all in the washer. NOW WASH YOUR HANDS before you touch yourself -anywhere-. Yes, especially -there-. Be careful where you step, too, so you don't walk in bare feet where you trod with ivy boots. Take a shower or two. Apply anti-histamine or cortisone ointment, or your other Favourite Cure if you discover, a day or two later, that you got some ivy on you anyway, in spite of the precautions. To wash the clothes: add Amway Tri-Zyme or some other good enzyme powder, and soak the clothes for an hour. Then wash them. Then wash them again. 3. Goats eat poison ivy. Keep goats, and they will eat your ivy, along with lots of other stuff. -------*-------- Here's what I've learned over the last few years from experience and also from research at the local University Library. I've spent hours going through dermatology journals reading up on this stuff. If anyone finds mistakes below, or has evidence to the contrary, feel free to post or e-mail me. I'll try and keep this up-to-date. ON THE RASH: * The irritant in poison ivy, poison sumac, and poison oak is urushiol. Urushiol is also found in the lacquer tree, but I doubt you have one of those. The rash you get is an allergic reaction. Everything I say below about poison ivy should also apply to poison oak and sumac. * If you brush up against a healthy undamaged plant, you won't usually get urushiol on you. You usually have to come in contact with a damaged leaf. Almost all plants have damaged leaves - either from insects, weather, or from your stepping on them. * The toxin exists in varying concentrations in the leaves, stems, and roots. I have gotten a rash from all three, although the reaction I got from the roots was very minor. * The oil is easily transferred from one place to another. For example, I got some on my shoelaces once, and I kept getting poison ivy on my hands for a couple of months before I figured out what was going on :-(. Once it is on your hands, it can, and will, end up anywhere on you body :-O . It is also common for it to be picked up on the hair of your dog or horse, and then repeatedly transferred to you. * Once you get the oil on clothing, it can sit for months and still cause a rash upon contact with your skin. For example,lets say you get some poison ivy oil on your boots, then put the boots away for the winter. Next spring you get out the boots and go for a walk - but not in the woods. A few days later, voila - your hands are breaking out from putting on your boots and tying the laces. * The first time you in your life you're exposed to urushiol, you will not react to it. In other words, you get one free pass. After that, your body develops an allergic reaction, which is the rash you get from subsequent exposures. The literature says it is possible to lose your allergic response if you are not exposed for a long period of time, like 10 years or more. So, if you haven't gotten poison ivy in 10 years, you may get another free pass. There are a number of other chemical irritants (like trinitrochlorobenzene) that also cause this type of allergic response in your skin, but hopefully you'll never have to worry about them. * There is no known way to build up an immunity to the oil. There is anecdotal evidence of people drinking teas made from poison ivy to try and build up an immunity. They got sick and got rashes on their butts. * Not all humans are allergic to urushiol. I think about 1 in 7 (or was it 1 in 15) are not allergic. Native Americans (a.k.a. American Indians) tend to NOT be allergic. * If you think you've come into contact with poison ivy, throw everything in the wash when you get home. Wash yourself with COLD WATER. The oil is supposedly soluble in water. If you use warm water, it will cause the pores in your skin to open up, enabling the oil to get deeper in your skin. * Tall socks and long pants are highly recommended when hiking through poison ivy. In places where the ivy can grow tall, a long-sleeve shirt is also a good idea. * If you really want to hike in shorts in poison-ivy country, there is this goop you can put on your legs that will keep it off your skin. I've used it before and didn't get a rash, but I don't know if I came into physical contact with poison ivy. This goop is available at larger sporting-goods stores. * Interestingly, I've found that the best way to keep from getting poison ivy is to learn to recognize the plants. After unsuccessfully spraying it for years (it's everywhere on our property), I can spot it at 100 ft. I used to get a rash every year - sometimes 2 or three times in a summer. This was simply because I didn't notice where I was walking or sitting. I spend more time in our woods than ever, now, and I haven't picked up poison ivy in 2 years. This co-existence works fine for me, but not always as well for unescorted visitors :-(. There can be substantial variation between plants, so learn to recognize all the variants of leaf formation, etc. * If you get a rash, you pretty much have to wait it out. However, you CAN treat the symptons - namely itching. I've found hydrocortizone cream to work well at reducing the itch. I believe The FDA has recently increased the non-prescription strength from .5% to 1%, so make sure you get the stronger stuff. If it's really bad, see your doctor. Although it's unlikely, you want to make sure any complications are treated quickly. This is more likely to happen if you are exposed over a very large part of your body. * Each person reacts a little differently, but on me, it takes 1.5-2 days after exposure to notice an itch, and 2-3 weeks before the blisters have gone away. * As long as you've washed the original oil off your skin, the puss from the blisters should not re-infect your skin. It's just puss, and does not contain urushiol. ON GETTING RID OF THE PLANTS: * If you only have a small number of plants, you can physically remove them, but BE CAREFUL. Use rubber gloves, and put the plants and the gloves in a plastic bag when done. Wash ANYTHING that touches the plants in cold water. * I've had no success with 2,4-D. Although the packaging says it's indicated for poison ivy, I've found that the leaves just turn brown and fall off, and then come right back. Even after 2 or 3 applications, the plants keep coming back. * Roundup (or one of the cheaper equivalents) works much better, but you'll need 2 applications, 4-6 weeks apart. * If you do go the chemical route, I suggest getting a dye from your local nursery and mixing it with the Roundup so you can see where you've sprayed. They call it a marker, since it 'marks' where you've sprayed. There are other types of markers, including foams, but I've had better luck with dyes. The kind I use is dark blue, and disappears within a day of use. I've usually been able to get away with 1/2 the recommended dose - your milage may vary. The advantages are that you can verify hitting all the leaves, but you don't end up re-spraying stuff you've already hit. The end result is better kill, less cost (because you use less Roundup), and less damage to the environment. * Even if you think you've killed all the plants, expect some to come back from the roots next year. * NEVER, NEVER, NEVER burn poison ivy. The oil can be carried up with the smoke, and can be VERY nasty if inhaled. Andy Goris >* The best thing I've found to deal with Poison Ivy is a product > called "Technu Poison Oak and Ivy Cleanser" I found in the first-aid > section of the drug store. It's a liquid soap that can be used to > try and wash out the irritating oil before or after the rash > develops (sooner is better). One caution that isn't sufficiently > emphasized in the directions: The stuff has a mild anesthetic > effect. This makes it possible to wash/scratch the affected area > too vigorously. This breaks down the skin's ability to hold > together. The effect is like a second-degree burn or the skin > underneath a blister. Very painful, and now you have to treat it > like a burn, with all the attendant danger of infection, etc. Keep > the washing with the Technu gentle, and you should have no problem. > - PauL Drews Actually, the best thing to use is ethanol. Probably cheaper than the above product, anyway. Ethanol acts as a solvent for the toxin found in poison ivy (Toxicodendrol, I believe). there's a blurb in the latest Business Week on the University of Mississippi, in that they have figured out more about what Poison Ivy does to you - and have some level of immunization shot. one per year is what they mentioned in the article. it's the Business Week with the cover about women in industry. Date: 3 Jun 92 15:15:14 GMT v>there's a blurb in the latest Business Week on the University of >Mississippi, in that they have figured out more about what Poison Ivy >does to you - and have some level of immunization shot. one per year >is what they mentioned in the article. it's the Business Week with the >cover about women in industry. They've actually had the immunization for several years. Last I knew there was one problem. You need to make sure you get the shot EARLY in the year, *BEFORE* poison ivy is up and growing. Encountering poison ivy shortly after the shot can cause an *Extremely* nasty case of the stuff... From an upcoming medical journal article. Toxicodendron species (Poison Oak, Poison Ivy, Poison Sumac) Anacardiaceae (Cashew or Sumac family). The genus contains approximately 15 species found in eastern Asia, North and South America. The literature contains considerable nomenclatural controversy and confusion, and most early works place ~Poison Oak,~ ~Poison Ivy~ and ~Poison Sumac~ in the genus Rhus. In addition, medical literature usually persists in referring to the toxic effects of these plants as Rhus dermatitis. Recent taxonomic studies place these toxic plants of the Anacardiaceae in the genus Toxicodendron, while the genus Rhus contains nontoxic plants. Toxicodendron is generally known by the public as the most villainous plant for its ability to produce contact dermatitis. Although the consequences of Toxicodendron exposure are usually well-known, most individuals are unable to identify this genus, which is generally characterized by shiny trofoliate (three-leaflet) leaves (Toxicodendron vernix has 7 - 13 leaflets.) The plant~s ability to grow either as a shrub or as a woody opportunistic vine that commonly climbs trees and fences confuses the identification process. Yet more confusion persists because of the public~s use of common names. The most important toxic species, Toxicodendron diversilobum (T. & G.) Greene (Poison Oak), Toxicodendron radicans (L.) O. Kuntze (Poison Ivy) and Toxicodendron vernix (L.) O. Kuntze (Poison Sumac), are clear and distinct species, although they are often lumped together under the common name ~Poison Ivy.~ Both climbing and shrub-like forms of T. radicans are common throughout eastern North America, with similar growth forms of T. diversilobum confined to the coast of western North America. Toxicodendron vernix is confined to bogs and cooler areas of eastern North America. The effects of dermal exposure for the three species are similar. Depending upon the degree of sensitization, a pruritic erythematous and vesicular rash will develop within hours or days and may persist for up to 10 days. A linear rash distribution is particularly suggestive of Toxicodendron dermatitis. The treatment is largely symptomatic therapy focused on amelioration of the symptoms. Little or nothing can be done to arrest the process once the exposure has occurred. The value of scrubbing the affected area with soap and water will have no value unless instituted within minutes of the exposure. The entire plant, except the pollen, is toxic throughout the year, even during the winter months when the branches and stems are leafless. Urushiol, a nonvolatile phenolic allergen that acts as a powerful hapten, is contained within the plant~s resin canals and is released when the tissues are injured. Urushiol has as its dermatitis-producing principle pentadecylacatechol. It is estimated that 70% of the United States population would acquire Toxicodendron dermatitis on casual exposure to one of the three species mentioned above. Individuals sensitive to Toxicodendron species may exhibit cross reactions to Japanese lacquer, cashew nut trees, or mango. Contact with these or other genera in the Anacardiaceae should be avoided. The ingestion of Toxicodendron or herbal remedies that contain it can produce life threatening gastroenteritis. Even dermal exposure or inhalation of smoke from burning plant debris containing Toxicodendron can produce severe toxicity. It is a common misconception that the fluid from skin vesicles can spread the rash to other body parts or to other individuals. Medicinally, Toxicodendron has been used to cure eczema and shingles as well as ringworm. The sap, which turns black when exposed to air, was one of the few natural sources of black lacquer dye before the introduction of synthetic dyes. --------*-------- Speaking of folk medicine, medicinal uses of plants...I am not a biology major but have had an interest in this area for some time. Why is it that only one person, James Duke of Dept of Agri., has made a major effort to compile comprehensive lists of medicinal plants uses? Is it possible that modern American medicine has assumptions that run contrary to even the examination of historical and folk use? At the least, by now, I would hope for a large d-base perhaps a CD ROM of thousands of medicinally used plants both in U.S. and abroad, something easily accessible for public search, such as Med Line. Especially as world and American species are being eliminated so quickly. ---------*-------- Here's a "preventative" method for the skin... If you think you have been exposed, wash with hot water (as hot as you can tolerate) and Fels Naptha soap. The soap is horrible on the skin, but it has something which breaks up the oil of the poison. Also, wash the clothes in hot water immediately. The rash from poison ivy can take up to 72 hours to appear after exposure, and is often spread on the body by taking showers while the oils are still on the skin. (The oils often stay on your hands, on the palms in the creases. You usually don't get poison on the palms because the skin is so tough, but you spread it everywhere just by touching.) From: Ecology Center Fund Subject: Re: poison ivy/sumack/oak Date: 28 Apr 92 15:12:00 GMT Look for a product in your supermarket or outdoor goods store called Tecnu. It's nothing short of miraculous. It prevents AND alleviates the rash. Not 100 % effective, but hey, what do you want, a perfect world? :) --------*-------- How to recognize PI/PS/PO: POISON IVY (Toxicodendron radicans = Rhus radicans = Rhus toxicodendron) Found in a wide range of habitats, but in the midwest often seen in disturbed woods, roadsides, and flood plains. Most widespread of PI, PS, and PO. Small, slightly woody plant, or shrubby, or vining. LEAVES ALTERNATE (= 1 leaf per node), TRIFOLIOLATE (=3 leaflets), with pedicel (leafstalk) and the CENTRAL LEAFLET WITH PETIOLULE (=leaflet stalk). The lateral two leaflets are not distinctly stalked. Leaflets are a variety of shapes, but generally ovate or obovate (roughly apple-leaf shaped). Leaflets may be smooth-edged (entire), irregularly toothed, or shallowly lobed. Leaves of one variant form looking like small oak-leaves (but look again!). Leaves apple-green and shiny in the spring, deep green and often dusty in the summer, turning a glorious reddish orange in the fall. Flowers tiny, whitish, in clusters; fruits white berries in late summer or fall. Closest look-alike: Box-elder seedlings (Acer negundo), which has OPPOSITE, trifoliolate leaves; the lateral two leaflets are often slightly stalked. Older box-elders generally have 5 leaflets per leaf. POISON SUMAC (Toxicodendron vernix = Rhus vernix) Shrub, to perhaps 15-20 ft tall, often branched from the base. LEAVES ALTERNATE WITH 7-13 LEAFLETS, lateral leaflets without a petiolule (leaflet stalk), TERMINAL LEAFLET WITH A STALK. MIDRIB OF THE LEAF WITHOUT A PAIR OF WINGS OF TISSUE THAT RUN BETWEEN LEAFLET PAIRS. More small, whitish berries in a long cluster. Usually in wetlands, Maine to Minnesota, south to Texas and Florida. Closest look-alikes: Staghorn sumac, Rhus typhina, which has clusters of fuzzy, red fruits and toothed leaflets, and likes dry soils; Smooth sumac, Rhus glabra, with bright red fruits and slightly toothed leaves; much drier soil than PS. POISON OAK: (Toxicodendron diversiloba = Rhus diversiloba). Reputedly the worst of the bunch. Erect shrub, usually about 3-6ft tall (to 12 ft!), bushy, with ALTERNATE LEAVES OF THREE LEAFLETS, the LEAFLETS generally lobed slightly or as much as an oak leaf; CENTRAL LEAFLET STALKED. Leaves generally bright, shiny green above, paler below. Fruits are small whitish berries. Common on the west coast, esp. low places, thickets and wooded slopes. Occasionally a 5-leafleted form is found. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI ================================== Ron Rushing Technology Coordinator Stephen F. Austin State University Nacogdoches, TX f_rushingrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Disclaimer: "Its alright-- Its only me" Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Poison ivy From: Ron Rushing Date: 21 May 94 21:15:12 CST =========== Poison Ivy Contact with poison ivy can leave you with a rash and persistent itch. This native perennial grows throughout Virginia, in woods, fields, and sometimes in the garden. It grows in sun or shade, and in wet or dry places. Its growth habit depends on where it is growing, resulting in a trailing ground cover, free-standing shrub, or a vine supported by trees, shrubbery and fences. All parts of the poison ivy plant contain an oil, urushiol, which causes the allergic reaction. Most poisoning occur during the growing season when the presence of lush foliage increases the chance of contact, but the dormant stems and roots of the vine can cause winter poisoning as well. Individuals vary in their sensitivity to poison ivy, but repeated exposure can lead to increased sensitivity. It would be a good idea for everyone to avoid this plant. Poison ivy appears in many forms. The leaflets vary in size, glossiness, and marginal notching, but always occur in groups of three. If you avoid all unknown plants with leaves composed of three leaflets, you will be playing it safe. Poison ivy is difficult but not impossible to eradicate. The chief difficulty lies in the chances of becoming poisoned when trying to remove it. Wear protective clothing, including gloves, whenever you are working near it. Pulling and grubbing are effective means of removal, though they necessitate close contact and will probably need to be repeated once or twice for complete control. If time is not an object, the vines can be smothered by completely covering them with black plastic for several months. Do not mow the plants as this will spew bits and pieces of poisonous material over the area. When removing poison ivy, take frequent breaks to change clothes and scrub thoroughly with a strong soap. Wash contaminated clothing separately. DO NOT BURN any plants that you physically remove. The resulting smoke can cause severe lung damage if inhaled. Herbicides are effective and allow you to control the plant without getting too close to it. Several commercial products are available. Check labels to find one that will control poison ivy, and apply it as directed. Many of the herbicides for poison ivy control contain glyphosate. This chemical is systemic. It is absorbed by leaves and transferred to stems and roots, and slowly causes the death of the entire plant. It must be applied to an actively growing plant for this process to take place; do not apply it during a drought when even poison ivy will not be growing. Glyphosate, like most herbicides labelled for poison ivy removal, is nonselective and will kill any other plants it contacts. Where poison ivy has grown up tree trunks or into hedges, cut the vine at ground level. Remove as much of the stump and roots as you can with a hoe or by pulling. As regrowth occurs, apply an herbicide to the leaves, or keep pulling up the growth. With perseverance, and probably of few itches, poison ivy can be controlled. ================ Ron Rushing Technology Coordinator Stephen F. Austin State University Nacogdoches, TX f_rushingrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Disclaimer: "Its alright-- Its only me" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HERBAL REMEDIES THAT MIGHT BE TRIED FOR POISON OAK AND POISON IVY RASHES ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (1) Newsgroups: rec.gardens From: vshea@aol.com (VShea) Subject: Re: Poison Oak remedies Date: 20 Jul 1994 15:55:01 -0400 :KEYWORDS: mugwort infosource: vshea@aol.com One other remedy I've heard of (NOTE: I am NOT recommending this from personal experience--it is secondhand!!!) In California, a plant called mugwort usually grows near poison oak. It has a pleasant aromatic scent. If you know you've been exposed to poison oak, supposedly picking some mugwort, crushing it up, and rubbing it onthe spot where you were exposed will keep the rash from developing. Be sure to positively ID the mugwort before you try this! (2) From oatstraw@twain.ucs.umass.edu Thu Oct 27 21:41:31 EDT 1994 From: oatstraw@twain.ucs.umass.edu (ROBIN F HOWARD) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.herbs Subject: Re: poison oak remedy?? Date: 25 Oct 1994 19:33:25 GMT :KEYWORDS: sweetfern, jewelweed, witch hazel, rubbing alcohol, info-source: oatstraw@twain.ucs.umass,edu I made a linament with, let's see, sweetfern, jewelweed, witch hazel, rubbing alcohol...I know there were a few other things in there. Anyway, I zipped it all up in a blender until it was green and pulverized, let it sit for two weeks, strain it and voila, a marvy linament. Maybe I'll look up the rest of the ingreds. and post tomorrow. (3) From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: alt.med.allergy Subject: Treatment for poison ivy outbreaks. Date: 21 May 1994 16:25:20 GMT :KEYWORDS: goldenseal, jewelweed, aloe vera, comfrey, plantain leaves info source: london@sunSITE.unc.edu Combinations of the following herbs remedies could be used: Apply to the lesions, more or less in this order: 1) squeeze juice of fresh jewelweed plants onto lesions and reserve remains of plants for application as a compress [this will help reduce itching - the other herbs listed here may also help with this] OPTIONAL: 2) squeeze juice of aloe vera onto lesions and reserve remains of plants for compress; promotes healing 3) liberally dust powdered goldenseal on top of the above plant juices before they dry onto the lesions; this will promote rapid healing 4) take a wooden meat maul and mash leaves and stems of the following plants: comfrey OPTIONAL: plantain leaves OPTIONAL: remains of jewelweed and aloe plants used in previous procedure form the resulting mass into a poultice or compress and apply it on top of the goldenseal on the lesions hold poultice in place with a bandage of some sort, if possible. After four hours or so remove poultice and clean the lesions with water; a mild non-irritating soap could be used if necessary Repeat this entire procedure every four hours as needed until itching is reduced and lesions begin to heal. ----------------------------------- MISCELLANEOUS TREATMENT INFORMATION ----------------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: Greg Smith Subject: Re: poison ivy! Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 13:22:01 GMT >Common H2O will neutralize the poison ivy, if you rinse before >it becomes irritated. If you suspect that you've hit a patch >of the stuff, just rinse off the exposed areas with a little >warm water. Agreed that water is good but please DON"T USE WARM WATER. Warm water will open the pores in your skin allowing the (poison ivy) oil to get in. Use cold water and soap. To give you an idea of how the oil behaves on your skin, consider what happened to me. On military exercise, I got into some poison ivy in an ugly way. I knew I had about 2 hours to do something or I would certainly die a horrible itchy death. I doused my arms in rubbing alcohol to remove the oil from my hands and arms. What I forgot to think about was that the disolved oil was running down my arms to my elbows where the alcohol was evaporating and redepositing now concentrated poison ivy oil. Within a day I had no skin on my elbows. No matter what you decide to do to, just remember that the oil has to be removed completely or neutralized in place. There is a product called Tecnu that works wonders. Telephone linemen swear by it. BTW: I think calamine lotion is worthless. Greg Smith AT&T Global Information Solutions greg.n.smith@DaytonOH.ncr.com Opinions expressed don't necessarily reflect the views or policies of AT&T Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: rperkins@bnr.ca (Robert M. Perkins) Subject: Re: poison ivy! Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 21:13:23 GMT I have a great case on my lower legs right now, and have been very allergic since age 7 (crawled into a poison sumac bush wearing swimming trunks. The stuff covered 80% of my body.) I've tried various steroid creams: 1% hydrocortisone works okay. .5% is useless. "Triamcinalone" steroid cream works better- prescription. "Hydroxine HCL 25mg" - prescription- three times a day cuts the itching but makes you woozy, esp.if you drink a beer. Don't know if it is an antihistamine. Anyone out there know? Max strength sinutab has acetaminophen analgesic, pseudoephedrine (sudafed?) decongestant, and chlorpheniramine maleate antihistamine. The anithistamine and analgesic make me feel better, though tired. Any antihistamine should do something to cut the itching. And, wackiest symptom reliever of all: Fill the tub w/ cool water. add 1/2 chlorine bleach, 4 tablespoons salt. soak for 10 minutes. seems to help. Came upon this after having symptoms relieved after swimming in the ocean or in a swimming pool. calamine lotion dries it out just a little. 95% useless. i keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol in my car *usually* in case i think i've been exposed. Rob Perkins Internet rperkins@bnr.ca ESN 294-7632 Commercial 919-991-7632 AIN/SSP Development, Dept 3C38 Bell Northern Research, 35 Davis Drive, RTP, NC 27709 The opinions I opine are purely mine; BNR doesn't share them. From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: poison ivy! Date: 17 May 1994 13:49:50 -0700 >(Jason Russell Dalton) writes: >>Common H2O will neutralize the poison ivy, if you rinse before >>it becomes irritated. If you suspect that you've hit a patch >>of the stuff, just rinse off the exposed areas with a little >>warm water. I react strongly to poison oak. So strongly that I had to go to a doctor last time. I eventually saw an allergist who gave me a copy of a pamphlet (I don't know who printed it) which advised the following: Rinse as soon as possible (everyone agrees on this). Use a LOT of COLD water. Be aware that this water is simply spreading the oil around; the idea is to use enough water to have it spread off you entirely. As someone else mentioned, hot water opens the pores and allows more oil to get in. The pamphlet didn't mention soap one way or the other; possibly it was referring to people caught in the field who didn't have access to soap. The doctor said that to use a little water was probably worse than to do nothing at all, because it would simply spread the oil over more of your skin. --Mike Tamada Occidental College tamada@oxy.edu Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: hlindaue@harp.aix.calpoly.edu (Hans Fredrick Lindauer) Subject: Re: poison ivy! (Poison Oak) Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 00:19:52 GMT I used to just wait until I was finished hiking, and then use Teknu, and shower off. [text deleted] prescribe some Prednisone and Atarax, [text deleted] The one good thing about all of this is that I found out (too late, of course!) that Tecnu also makes a product called Armor, which you put on before exposure, and which prevents the oils from soaking into your skin. I bought two bottles. The doctor yesterday told me to carry alcohol and some paper towels, so that if I get exposed, I can immediately wipe off any oils. Hans Lindauer hlindaue@flute Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: tonya@grok155.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM () Subject: Re: poison ivy! Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 20:47:48 GMT >>Does anyone have any good cures for poison Ivy. >Patience and Calamine lotion. It will dry up eventually. A few years ago I >had a case that got out of hand and a dr. gave me a prescription for a drug >called prednisone. He said it was a type of steroid. After taking that stuff >it is no wonder to me that the muscleheads who take steroids slam their heads >into walls and grunt a lot. Talk about wired. It cleared up my poison ivy >in about 24 hours, but I was very unhappy for the week I had to take that >stuff. I get poison every spring and find that once you have it, it will run >it's course in about a week - so just don't scratch! > - Keith Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: robert.samuelsen@daytonOH.ncr.com (Rob Samuelsen) Subject: Re: poison ivy! Keywords: jewelweed Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 14:03:02 GMT >>I am extremely sensitive to poison oak and have found an inexpensive and >>simple method for relief/cure. >> >>1 - Mix up a slurry of rubbing alcohol and Comet Cleanser >>2 - Apply it to the affected area >>3 - Scrub it around until the skin is well scoured (skin turns pink) >>4 - Allow skin to heal >>5 - Don't go back to the area where you made contact with the damn >> stuff! >> >>Relief from the itching after step 3 is fairly fast (as I remember it >>was less than a day). The native americans used Jewelweed. They would smash it into a pulp and spread the pulp over the affected area. Jewelweed is usually found in moist, shaded areas and is identified by it's waxy leaves. After a rain or heavy dew, water beads up on the waxy leaves and looks like jewels. Rob Samuelsen AT&T Global Information Solutions (Formerly NCR Corporation) Platform Solution Services Development Professional Services Division Phone......(513)445-1256 FAX.......(513)445-7196 E-mail... Robert.Samuelsen@DaytonOH.NCR.COM Expressed opinions don't necessarily reflect those of AT&T. Newsgroups: alt.med.allergy From: carveb@netcom.com (Robert D Carver) Subject: Poison Oak/Ivy Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 15:56:29 GMT I picked up a product recently that is supposed to alliviate symptoms of poison oak, ivy, sumac. I haven't needed it yet so i can not verify it works. It's called "Easy Ivy". It's made by Bethrum Reasearch and Development and their address is P.O. Box 3436 Galveston, TX 77552. Has anyone out there tried this stuff? -- carveb@netcom.com Bob Carver Dallas, TX From: vikikirk@bronze.coil.com (Viki Kirk) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Herbal treatment of poison ivy rashes. Date: 25 May 1994 07:06:28 -0400 I spent a night in a poison ivy patch with ten others who are also sensitive to poison ivy. I was on an Outward Bound trip in the NC mountains. We had been hiking mountainous terrain until well into the the night when we came upon a nice flat camp spot -- unfortunately infested with the stuff. Our leaders told us to rub the juice from a fibrous plant on our skin -- Jewel Weed. Luckily there was plenty of it. Not one of us got a rash from the poison ivy! Viki Article 33840 of rec.gardens: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!bigfoot.wustl.edu!mulberry!nedehn From: nedehn@artsci.wustl.edu (Natasha Elizabeth Dehn) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re.Poison Ivy Date: 22 May 1994 15:58:08 GMT Organization: College of Arts and Sciences -- Washington University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2rnveg$i12@bigfoot.wustl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mulberry.wustl.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Regarding reactions and treatment: Not everyone is lucky enough to get off with a rash. A serious exposure or strong sensitivity will produce flu-like symptoms--fever, achyness, etc.. It's possible to be sick as a dog for more than a month--believe me, I know!! I also developed additional spontaneous rashes on unexposed portions of my body, weeks after the initial outbreak--my immune system had developed a hair-trigger sensitivity. I was told some of this might have been prevented had they started oral steroids immediately (another thing to note--not every site of exposure will show up at once--and I'm not talking about secondary exposure from touching oneself, though I got that too--all over my neck and face! But it was more than a week before all the streaks of blisters appeared on my legs, which had clearly brushed up against the plant). In my case the situation is now clear. But for all of you as-yet-unexposed people out there--should you ever be so unlucky as to meet the dreaded plant, be aware that stronger reactions are possible and stronger treatment is available. Don't be shy about going to see your doctor--just 'cause the books don't usually mention it doesn't mean you're imagining your illness :) --Natasha Newsgroups: rec.gardens From: scd@atria.com (Steve Daukas) Subject: Re: poison ivy (help! help!) Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 12:18:31 GMT : We have discovered, to our deep, itchy, dismay that we have : poison ivy on our yard. So far we seem to have seen it before anyone : has been exposed. Both of us react *badly* to it and we have a small : child who hasn't been exposed yet. In the event that the RoundUp and : another more broad herbicide we've used in different spots doesn't kill : it DEADEADEAD, what should we then try? I'm not sure I'd like the : blowtorch approach because of the smoke, some of the ivy is in : with other weeds and the whole area could also catch fire. : Should we lay in a good supply of disposable HazMat Suits and : just keep fighting?? I am currently working on killing my bumper crop of PI. I am using Orthro Brush-be-gone. The first application has had dramatic effects! I'm expecting to give one more application (I mix the product in a 6oz/24oz ratio in a small spray bottle and then spray it on the leaves). You can remove the vines by hand and then use the chemicals on the "stump" of the vine, but this means rubber gloves et. al. and disposal of the unwanted vines. Now, whatever you do, DO NOT burn PI (or anything similar). Contrary to other posts, you do not need to be sensitive to PI to have a severe reaction to the smoke. Inhaled allergens are usually nothing to worry about and usually do not cause a reaction, however PI smoke is no longer an allergen by normal definitions. It is VERY easy to develop analphalyxis when you breath this in. Death can ensue in 10 to 30 minutes if you breath enough of it and you are very young/old or have a medical history of asthma or allergies. Also, breathing this in will almost certainly cause you to develop a hypersensitivity to PI and other similar plants that will stay with you the rest of your life. Regards, Steve -- From: vshea@aol.com (VShea) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Poison Oak remedies Date: 20 Jul 1994 15:55:01 -0400 Two other remedies I've heard of (NOTE: I am NOT recommending these from personal experience--they are secondhand!!!) 1. In California, a plant called mugwort usually grows near poison oak. It has a pleasant aromatic scent. If you know you've been exposed to poison oak, supposedly picking some mugwort, crushing it up, and rubbing it on the spot where you were exposed will keep the rash from developing. Be sure to positively ID the mugwort before you try this! 2. A woman whose daughters got terrible poison oak reactions once told me that jumping in a chlorinated swimming pool seemed to give them a lot of relief. She recommended taking a cool bath with a tablespoon or 2 of chlorine bleach (no more!) in the water if you don't have access to a swimming pool. Newsgroups: sci.bio.ecology Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 20:36:00 EDT Sender: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" From: "Don Bragg - D.Roberts work" Subject: Re: NEED HELP ON THE ECOLOGY OF POISON IVY Poison ivy (Rhus radicans) tends to be a disturbance species in many areas, although it is flexible in its habitats. One will often run into it on drier, sandier sites (thus the connection with oak, as suggested by Ms. Findley), but you can encounter it on better sites or in wetlands. As I was doing habitat classification this summer in Forest County, Wisconsin (a county vastly dominated by very good site conditions), the only time I encountered poison ivy was in a black ash/tagalder swamp on the edge of an open fen. This wasn't a few struggling, miserable plants, but a nice, healthy clump. Poison ivy seems to be remarkalby adaptive to various environments, so I do not know if it would have any value as an index plant. It also displays a number of different growth forms, from an herb to a shrub to a vine, once again reflecting its adaptability. Hope this helps whoever asked the question. Don C. Bragg dcbragg@geog.usu.edu From: jogilmor@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Jodie Gilmore) Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: Posion oak Date: 5 Jan 1995 08:25:00 -0500 re. treating poison oak. Supplies: good "yellow" (lye) soap (like Fels Naptha or Octagon). Regular soap, like Dial or Ivory, doesn't work. Anti-itch treatment. Rhouli-Gel or HydroSkin recommended. Calamine lotion and relatives are virtually useless. Use the soap to scrub off the pustules. Wash very well, and use cool, not hot water. (To keep from getting it again, in the future, wash with this soap right after returning from your hikes. If you've REALLY been exposed, wipe down with alcohol after washing.) After you've scrubbed (yes, this hurts a bit, but the pain is worth not itching for weeks and the rash spreading), spread the anti-itch stuff over the rash. Now, DON'T SCRATCH. Once a day you can wash again, and reapply the anti-itch stuff. But intermittent scratching will only spread the rash. If you are having a severe reaction, go to your doctor and request cortisone treatment (I had to have this twice for poison ivy, until I got my "prevention routine" down pat). Now that I wash with yellow soap religiously (it is kind of hard on the complexion, so invest in some hand lotion too), I haven't had it in 4 years--and I'ved lived in NC and FL--there's LOTS of poison everything here (and I'm extra-sensitive. Even *tomatos* make me itch!) Good luck! Jodie Gilmore Freelance Technical Writer Lamont, FL From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (artemis) Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: Posion oak Date: 5 Jan 1995 14:54:51 GMT >use cool, not hot water. (To keep from getting it again, in the >future, wash with this soap right after returning from your hikes. If >you've REALLY been exposed, wipe down with alcohol after washing.) And wash well any clothing or items you had with you. If you are hyper sensitive, cleaning anything you touched (doorknobs, steering wheel, etc) will help. >After you've scrubbed (yes, this hurts a bit, but the pain is worth >not itching for weeks and the rash spreading), spread the anti-itch >stuff over the rash. A product called IvyRest works well for me. It's a combination of benzacaine and cortecosteroids. If you are having trouble sleeping at night, get in the shower and run it as hot as you can stand. The itching will be intense, but after a few minutes of that, it'll stop for several hours. There is some debate as to whether or not such treatment will prolong recovery, but the immediate relief is well worth it IMHO. >Now, DON'T SCRATCH. Once a day you can wash again, and reapply the >anti-itch stuff. But intermittent scratching will only spread the rash. Minor nit. Scratching will *not* spread the rash once you've washed the oils off you. Scratching will increase the inflammation and can lead to infection. >If you are having a severe reaction, go to your doctor and request >cortisone treatment (I had to have this twice for poison ivy, until I >got my "prevention routine" down pat). Now that I wash with yellow >soap religiously (it is kind of hard on the complexion, so invest in >some hand lotion too), I haven't had it in 4 years--and I'ved lived in >NC and FL--there's LOTS of poison everything here (and I'm >extra-sensitive. Even *tomatos* make me itch!) Yah, cashews (of the sumac family) will make me itch most uncomfortably if I eat too many of them. I'm pretty sensitive to poison ivy, but after I learned how to identify it and to prevent the rash, I've not had much more than minor rash, even though I am exposed to it constantly working in the woods. -- Anmar Mirza # Chief of Tranquility # I'm a cheap date, EMT-D N9ISY # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # but an expensive pet. Sawyer # Somewhere out on the # EOL Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch. DoD#1143 # My views, not the U's From: what? (Charlie Johnston) Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: Posion oak Date: 5 Jan 1995 19:21:03 GMT I'm quite susceptable to poison oak/ivy/sumac, even to the point of once having to take oral prednisone. What works for me... Tecnu (brand) something or other (like Ivy-B-Gone) - this seems to get the urushiol off the skin. Eckerd's has it. Octagon bath soap - does it work? - I dunno. Use it anyhow in the shower. Hydrocortisone Ointment - 0.5% or better, applied early. Don't use the cream, too moist. Calamine lotion - doesn't do much but does help in weepy stage - I've thought about adding some lab-grade hydrocortisone to calamine more than once. BTW the active oil (urushiol) can be *very* persistant on clothing, even after laundering. I finally tracked down the vector of a recurrent rash in a rather sensitive area to some gym shorts. Also had a pair of leather work gloves that had to be trashed due to this. Now I often wear hospital scrubs or "greens" when brush clearing for lightweight skin coverage. ...charlie Article 14414 of misc.rural: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!news01!pge.com!jmwd From: jmwd@pge.com (JMWhite) Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Posion oak: The Sure Cure Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 95 00:03:41 GMT References: <3eefba$q4q@qualcomm.com> Sender: news@news01.pge.com Organization: PG&E Lines: 59 Nntp-Posting-Host: jmwdws01.comp.pge.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] In article <3eefba$q4q@qualcomm.com> c_dbowen@qualcomm.com (Don Bowen) writes: > I seem to come in contact with posion oak this last weekend. >Over the years there has been a lot of discussion about posion oak >and how to treat it. I am now llokig for suggestions on how to >treat the rash all over my arms. > DonB This may be a repeat for most of you but here goes anyway: During my years as a firefighter with the USFS in CA we had frequent occasions to bathe in P.O. Prevention was not an option so we focused on early treatment and then dealiing with the eventual rash. Early treatment: As most other posts have correctly stated, get the stuff off as soon as possible. We used tincture of green soap (green soap w/ alcohol) to get rid of the oil (available at pharmacies). Other name-brand products like Tecnu also work well but are more expensive. We didn't worry much about whether we used hot/warm/cold water -- I tend to think the hot/cold water thing is overstated. When you're hot and sweaty (as you are likely to be if you are outside getting exposed to P.O.), the P.O. has likely already spread. However, if you were exposed on your arms only, I wouldn't get in the shower (hot or cold) and let the suds from cleaning your arms drip down your body. Getting the oil off quickly is the best thing you can do (other than staying indoors) to limit how nasty your rash will be. Rash treatment: Everybody will have a different reaction to the same level of exposure. I can be exposed and not show any symptoms but my wife will get a rash from contacting my body. Also, the rash may show up in places you were not exposed. I think this has something to do with the lymph system -- not sure. All calamine-type lotions are literally worthless. Rhuli-gel has been the best topical treatment I have found. If the rash is really nasty, you may want to check with a physician to see if steroids might help. However, the best treatment I have found is by far the most controversial -- hot water. I learned in the Forest Service that running hot water (as hot as you can tolerate) over the areas that itch will cause the itch to go away for as long as 12 hours and will help to speed the healing of the rash. Now the most important thing to remember is that the area must have been thoroughly cleaned as described above. No treatment will work if you still have the urushiol on your skin (or continue exposure through clothes or a pet). Not only does the hot water work, it actually feels good when you are doing it. It feels as though you are scratching the itch even though you aren't. I believe that the hot water destroys the histamines that are the cause of the problem but I am not sure. Anyway, I avoided this for weeks because I thought it was a trap by the other firefighters. But it works (and it is the cheapest treatment). Trust me. Still am looking for interested investors for my plan to market poison oak to th rest of the country. Looks good on paper: "drought-resitant, California native. Colorful shiny leaves with bright red berries. grows in any soil condition, etc." Any buyers? James White e-mail: jmwd%chem%mbpp@bangate.pge.com or maybe just jmwd@pge.com Don't blame me, I voted for Tsongas. Article 14494 of misc.rural: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oncolpc23.med.unc.edu!user From: what? (Charlie Johnston) Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: Posion oak Followup-To: misc.rural Date: 17 Jan 1995 22:00:54 GMT Organization: Yeah, right! Lines: 52 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3eefba$q4q@qualcomm.com> <95006.113642U6ED4@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> <3emeq0$q55@lucy.infi.net> <95014.112245U6ED4@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> <3fejij$htm@ceylon.gte.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: oncolpc23.med.unc.edu In article...(Andrew Betz) wrote: >> In article...bonni brooks wrote: >> **DON'T** wash with HOT water!!!! Wash with **TEPID** >> water!!! Hot water opens the pores and lets the resins from the poison >> ivy leaves in! > Let me second Bonni's advice. I am allergic to poison oak... Hmm, perhaps there is some confusion here as to the sequence of events under discussion: a hypothetical time line.... 1. Victim engages in spurious outdoor activities unprotected by gloves, body suit, Tecnu, and such. Or is just too stupid to wear long pants in the brush (who, me?!?).... 2. Victim contacts poison ivy/oak/sumac. Unbeknowingly scratches sensitive body parts, like eyes or...whatever. 3. Victim has insightful realization of probable epidermal urushiol contact, usually from incessant itching, sudden rash, or screaming. 4. Victim, having read misc.rural diligently, rushes to the house, wildly flinging off clothes, chanting "Tecnu-Octagon-green soap- purple-dinosaur", races into the shower, grabs the faucets, and... **** Use TEPID WATER only to remove the oil ! **** It is fairly resilant stuff and most regular bath soaps don't do a great job of stripping it from the skin. DON'T use a bath oil or cocoa-buttery beauty bar, these will just redistribute the urushiol over a wider area. 5. Due to the misguided efforts of the human immunologic system, small patches of red and inflammed skin will appear at the site of contact - often followed by small weepy pustulant scabby grossness reminiscent of those flying puke things that attacked Kirk and Spock on Epsilon 5. **** At this point, assuming the urushiol has been washed off, HOT WATER gives temporary relief from the itching! **** And I'm talking HOT - actually painfully so is best. I dunno how this provides relief exactly - my guess is it overwhelms the pain receptors with "HOT HOT HOT" signals and causes temporary short-circuiting until the synaptic gap repair boys can get down from the cerebrospinal maintenance center....or something. Anyway, it works...for a while. Just before bed will get you a decent amount of sleep. Just before work will get you to about 3 pm at which point you will go bonkers with the itching. Just before sex....ah, you won't feel like sex anyhow. Want some *real agony*? Try poison oak on top of sunburn. ....charlie Article 8514 of misc.survivalism: Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!breon From: breon@netcom.com (breon moore) Subject: Re: Poison Oak Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <3jor10$ca@desiree.teleport.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 06:55:56 GMT Lines: 10 Sender: breon@netcom4.netcom.com e142857@teleport.com wrote: : Regarding poison oak: I've spoken to several Oregon Forest Service : personnel, surveyors and smoke jumpers who claim to have either : developed resistance to, or gotten relief from the weed by using : Hyland's Poison Oak Remedy. They take for a week before they : expect to encounter the stuff, or as an antedote after contacting it. : Health food stores usually carry it, 100 tablets, $5.29. : ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 5920 of bionet.plants: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!olivea!biosci!MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU!jbrown01 From: jbrown01@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU ("John M. Brown") Newsgroups: bionet.plants Subject: Re: Poison Ivy Exudates (fwd) Date: 29 Mar 1995 20:30:19 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 42 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:01:29 -0600 From: Jeff Dean Subject: Re: Poison Ivy Exudates John: (I tried to post this back to the newsgroup since I thought it might be of interest to a wider audience, but I am having a bit of trouble with the link between the server and my threaded reader. Feel free to repost it if you can.) The "tar" you saw was a high molecular weight polymer of a sesquiterpenoid catechol, commonly referred to as urushiol. The urushiol monomers (these are also the allergens that make you itch after handling fresh poison oak, ivy or sumac) are polymerized in a free radical-mediated reaction catalyzed by laccases when the sap is exposed to oxygen. These sap components and the reaction are common to all members of the Toxidendron family and even some of the related Anacardaceae (eg. mango -- this is why some people feel itchy after eating mangoes, particularly if they ingest any of the fruit skin). A high-quality version of this sap harvested from the Japanese lacquer tree (Rhus vernicifera) is the varnishing agent for all the black lacquerware commonly seen throughout east Asia. If you would like more info, a good general discussion of the topic was written by Don Snyder (1989 J. Chem Edu. 66:977-980. It's really a pretty interesting story. -Jeff *********************************************************************** * * * * Jeffrey F.D. Dean, Ph.D. * "Ay," quoth my uncle Gloster, * * Department of Biochemistry * "Small herbs have grace, great weeds * * and Molecular Biology * do grow apace:" * * University of Georgia * And since methinks, I would not grow * * Athens, GA 30602-7229 USA * so fast, * * * Because sweet flowers are slow, and * * jdeanx1@uga.cc.uga.edu * weeds make haste. * * (706) 542-1710 * * * (706) 542-2222 FAX * - Richard III, Act II, Sc 4 * * * * *********************************************************************** Article 55450 of rec.gardens: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu (Thomas Bjorkman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: POISON OAK Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:15:15 GMT Organization: Cornell University Lines: 31 Sender: tnb1@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: References: <3hjlrf$8ac@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3hltjj$gss@news1.databank.com> <3hqos9$76j@gazoo.sdd.comsat.com> <3i8lot$nc@werner.cs.mtu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.236.10.69 > Steven M. Begley (sbegley@voicenet.com) wrote: > [snip] > : I answered someone a few weeks ago about Poison Ivy. Poison Oak is not native > : to this area, however, if memory serves, Poison Ivy is Toxidendron toxifolia, > : and Poison Oak is Toxidendron quecifolia. (People in the discussion about > : botanical names, take note: Toxideldron (self explanatory) quercus (Oak) > : folia (leafed) I'm afraid memory does not serve. Poison oak is Toxicodendron diversilobum (T&G) Greene Poison ivy is T. radicans (L) Kuntze Poison oak has also been called T. pubescens P. Mill., by Karetz and Ghandi (Phytologia 1991), but I have not seen that name used elsewhere. Poison ivy has some additional forms proposed by Reveal (Phytologia 1990): Toxicodendron radicans (L.) Kuntze: var. pubens (Engelm. ex S. Watson) comb, nov., var. barkleyi (Gillis) comb. nov., var. negundo (E. Greene) comb. nov. [Basionyms includes: Rhus toxicodendron var. pubens, T. radicans ssp. barkleyi, and T. negundo.] It is still failry common to see the old genus Rhus used by lumpers. -- Thomas Bjorkman Dept. of Horticultural Sciences Cornell University From rrushing@sfasu.eduTue Apr 18 22:28:37 1995 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:21:17 -0600 (CST) From: Ron Rushing To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: Poison Ivy/Oak FAQ Its getting that time of year once again-- so I thought I'd post my information once again-- Its a compilation of info collected last year. I tend to get into this stuff at least one GOOD! case each year. THe Technu product seems to wosk well for me if I apply it ASAP after exposure. My doctor also gave me samples of a cream called Temovate (clobetasol proplonate) 0.05% for which I am eternally grateful ! THanks again to all who responded to my questions. I appologize if I left your name(s) off. ================= Subject: Re: Poison Ivy, Oak, etc. Date: 1 Jun 92 16:30:07 GMT * Poison Oak, Poison Ivy, and Poison Sumac do pretty much the same thing to you. There is heated debate among botanists about whether Poison Oak and Poison Ivy really the same species. Poison Sumac is at least closely related. * They hurt you through an oil that transfers to your skin, or which you can inhale from the fumes of the burning plant. The oil doesn't wash off with plain water. Ordinary soap usually doesn't do it either. Some people claim to be immune to the irritation from this oil. A subset of these have rolled around in Poison Ivy to prove it. A subset of these have subsequently come down with severe cases of the rash. It would be prudent to avoid Poison Ivy. * The best thing I've found to deal with Poison Ivy is a product called "Technu Poison Oak and Ivy Cleanser" I found in the first-aid section of the drug store. It's a liquid soap that can be used to try and wash out the irritating oil before or after the rash develops (sooner is better). One caution that isn't sufficiently emphasized in the directions: The stuff has a mild anesthetic effect. This makes it possible to wash/scratch the affected area too vigorously. This breaks down the skin's ability to hold together. The effect is like a second-degree burn or the skin underneath a blister. Very painful, and now you have to treat it like a burn, with all the attendant danger of infection, etc. Keep the washing with the Technu gentle, and you should have no problem. Control: -------- 1. The darn stuff grows roots all over the place, just like lots of ivy. Each section seems to be able to grow without much help from the momma plant, once it gets going. That means your ordinary weed killers won't have as much effect on it as you would like. So what if it dies here, it just keeps going over there, under those rocks. We've used Roundup, and the long term effect seems to be that the ivy backs off, waits for everything else that the Roundup killed to decay, and then fills up the space vacated by its wimpy dead friends. Other weed killers, the kind you wouldn't want to have around your horses, may do better. We don't know. 2. You can rip it out by the roots. You'll need equipment and a method. Put on old clothes and tall rubber boots. Put on rubber gloves and coveralls. Let your beard grow a few days if you can, too. Wear a hat, preferably one that protects your ears. Put leather garden gloves over the rubber gloves. Rip the ivy out, being careful not to get it on your face. DON'T scratch any itches, DON'T slap mosquitos, DON'T try to get that little black fly that's starting to munch on your eyeball. Goggles or a beekeeper's bonnet might be helpful, you know. Put all the ivy in a gubbidge bag in a gubbidge bucket, and tie it up. Don't touch the bag again without gloves. To undress: Take off the garden gloves and throw them away, or drop them right into the washer. NOW WASH YOUR HANDS, that is, wash the rubber gloves. With the rubber gloves still on, remove the coveralls and the boots. The coveralls go right into the washer, along with your hat. Wash the boots. Remove the rest of your clothing, and put it all in the washer. NOW WASH YOUR HANDS before you touch yourself -anywhere-. Yes, especially -there-. Be careful where you step, too, so you don't walk in bare feet where you trod with ivy boots. Take a shower or two. Apply anti-histamine or cortisone ointment, or your other Favourite Cure if you discover, a day or two later, that you got some ivy on you anyway, in spite of the precautions. To wash the clothes: add Amway Tri-Zyme or some other good enzyme powder, and soak the clothes for an hour. Then wash them. Then wash them again. 3. Goats eat poison ivy. Keep goats, and they will eat your ivy, along with lots of other stuff. -------*-------- Here's what I've learned over the last few years from experience and also from research at the local University Library. I've spent hours going through dermatology journals reading up on this stuff. If anyone finds mistakes below, or has evidence to the contrary, feel free to post or e-mail me. I'll try and keep this up-to-date. ON THE RASH: * The irritant in poison ivy, poison sumac, and poison oak is urushiol. Urushiol is also found in the lacquer tree, but I doubt you have one of those. The rash you get is an allergic reaction. Everything I say below about poison ivy should also apply to poison oak and sumac. * If you brush up against a healthy undamaged plant, you won't usually get urushiol on you. You usually have to come in contact with a damaged leaf. Almost all plants have damaged leaves - either from insects, weather, or from your stepping on them. * The toxin exists in varying concentrations in the leaves, stems, and roots. I have gotten a rash from all three, although the reaction I got from the roots was very minor. * The oil is easily transferred from one place to another. For example, I got some on my shoelaces once, and I kept getting poison ivy on my hands for a couple of months before I figured out what was going on :-(. Once it is on your hands, it can, and will, end up anywhere on you body :-O . It is also common for it to be picked up on the hair of your dog or horse, and then repeatedly transferred to you. * Once you get the oil on clothing, it can sit for months and still cause a rash upon contact with your skin. For example,lets say you get some poison ivy oil on your boots, then put the boots away for the winter. Next spring you get out the boots and go for a walk - but not in the woods. A few days later, voila - your hands are breaking out from putting on your boots and tying the laces. * The first time you in your life you're exposed to urushiol, you will not react to it. In other words, you get one free pass. After that, your body develops an allergic reaction, which is the rash you get from subsequent exposures. The literature says it is possible to lose your allergic response if you are not exposed for a long period of time, like 10 years or more. So, if you haven't gotten poison ivy in 10 years, you may get another free pass. There are a number of other chemical irritants (like trinitrochlorobenzene) that also cause this type of allergic response in your skin, but hopefully you'll never have to worry about them. * There is no known way to build up an immunity to the oil. There is anecdotal evidence of people drinking teas made from poison ivy to try and build up an immunity. They got sick and got rashes on their butts. * Not all humans are allergic to urushiol. I think about 1 in 7 (or was it 1 in 15) are not allergic. Native Americans (a.k.a. American Indians) tend to NOT be allergic. * If you think you've come into contact with poison ivy, throw everything in the wash when you get home. Wash yourself with COLD WATER. The oil is supposedly soluble in water. If you use warm water, it will cause the pores in your skin to open up, enabling the oil to get deeper in your skin. * Tall socks and long pants are highly recommended when hiking through poison ivy. In places where the ivy can grow tall, a long-sleeve shirt is also a good idea. * If you really want to hike in shorts in poison-ivy country, there is this goop you can put on your legs that will keep it off your skin. I've used it before and didn't get a rash, but I don't know if I came into physical contact with poison ivy. This goop is available at larger sporting-goods stores. * Interestingly, I've found that the best way to keep from getting poison ivy is to learn to recognize the plants. After unsuccessfully spraying it for years (it's everywhere on our property), I can spot it at 100 ft. I used to get a rash every year - sometimes 2 or three times in a summer. This was simply because I didn't notice where I was walking or sitting. I spend more time in our woods than ever, now, and I haven't picked up poison ivy in 2 years. This co-existence works fine for me, but not always as well for unescorted visitors :-(. There can be substantial variation between plants, so learn to recognize all the variants of leaf formation, etc. * If you get a rash, you pretty much have to wait it out. However, you CAN treat the symptons - namely itching. I've found hydrocortizone cream to work well at reducing the itch. I believe The FDA has recently increased the non-prescription strength from .5% to 1%, so make sure you get the stronger stuff. If it's really bad, see your doctor. Although it's unlikely, you want to make sure any complications are treated quickly. This is more likely to happen if you are exposed over a very large part of your body. * Each person reacts a little differently, but on me, it takes 1.5-2 days after exposure to notice an itch, and 2-3 weeks before the blisters have gone away. * As long as you've washed the original oil off your skin, the puss from the blisters should not re-infect your skin. It's just puss, and does not contain urushiol. ON GETTING RID OF THE PLANTS: * If you only have a small number of plants, you can physically remove them, but BE CAREFUL. Use rubber gloves, and put the plants and the gloves in a plastic bag when done. Wash ANYTHING that touches the plants in cold water. * I've had no success with 2,4-D. Although the packaging says it's indicated for poison ivy, I've found that the leaves just turn brown and fall off, and then come right back. Even after 2 or 3 applications, the plants keep coming back. * Roundup (or one of the cheaper equivalents) works much better, but you'll need 2 applications, 4-6 weeks apart. * If you do go the chemical route, I suggest getting a dye from your local nursery and mixing it with the Roundup so you can see where you've sprayed. They call it a marker, since it 'marks' where you've sprayed. There are other types of markers, including foams, but I've had better luck with dyes. The kind I use is dark blue, and disappears within a day of use. I've usually been able to get away with 1/2 the recommended dose - your milage may vary. The advantages are that you can verify hitting all the leaves, but you don't end up re-spraying stuff you've already hit. The end result is better kill, less cost (because you use less Roundup), and less damage to the environment. * Even if you think you've killed all the plants, expect some to come back from the roots next year. * NEVER, NEVER, NEVER burn poison ivy. The oil can be carried up with the smoke, and can be VERY nasty if inhaled. Andy Goris >* The best thing I've found to deal with Poison Ivy is a product > called "Technu Poison Oak and Ivy Cleanser" I found in the first-aid > section of the drug store. It's a liquid soap that can be used to > try and wash out the irritating oil before or after the rash > develops (sooner is better). One caution that isn't sufficiently > emphasized in the directions: The stuff has a mild anesthetic > effect. This makes it possible to wash/scratch the affected area > too vigorously. This breaks down the skin's ability to hold > together. The effect is like a second-degree burn or the skin > underneath a blister. Very painful, and now you have to treat it > like a burn, with all the attendant danger of infection, etc. Keep > the washing with the Technu gentle, and you should have no problem. > - PauL Drews Actually, the best thing to use is ethanol. Probably cheaper than the above product, anyway. Ethanol acts as a solvent for the toxin found in poison ivy (Toxicodendrol, I believe). there's a blurb in the latest Business Week on the University of Mississippi, in that they have figured out more about what Poison Ivy does to you - and have some level of immunization shot. one per year is what they mentioned in the article. it's the Business Week with the cover about women in industry. Date: 3 Jun 92 15:15:14 GMT >there's a blurb in the latest Business Week on the University of >Mississippi, in that they have figured out more about what Poison Ivy >does to you - and have some level of immunization shot. one per year >is what they mentioned in the article. it's the Business Week with the >cover about women in industry. They've actually had the immunization for several years. Last I knew there was one problem. You need to make sure you get the shot EARLY in the year, *BEFORE* poison ivy is up and growing. Encountering poison ivy shortly after the shot can cause an *Extremely* nasty case of the stuff... From an upcoming medical journal article. Toxicodendron species (Poison Oak, Poison Ivy, Poison Sumac) Anacardiaceae (Cashew or Sumac family). The genus contains approximately 15 species found in eastern Asia, North and South America. The literature contains considerable nomenclatural controversy and confusion, and most early works place ~Poison Oak,~ ~Poison Ivy~ and ~Poison Sumac~ in the genus Rhus. In addition, medical literature usually persists in referring to the toxic effects of these plants as Rhus dermatitis. Recent taxonomic studies place these toxic plants of the Anacardiaceae in the genus Toxicodendron, while the genus Rhus contains nontoxic plants. Toxicodendron is generally known by the public as the most villainous plant for its ability to produce contact dermatitis. Although the consequences of Toxicodendron exposure are usually well-known, most individuals are unable to identify this genus, which is generally characterized by shiny trofoliate (three-leaflet) leaves (Toxicodendron vernix has 7 - 13 leaflets.) The plant~s ability to grow either as a shrub or as a woody opportunistic vine that commonly climbs trees and fences confuses the identification process. Yet more confusion persists because of the public~s use of common names. The most important toxic species, Toxicodendron diversilobum (T. & G.) Greene (Poison Oak), Toxicodendron radicans (L.) O. Kuntze (Poison Ivy) and Toxicodendron vernix (L.) O. Kuntze (Poison Sumac), are clear and distinct species, although they are often lumped together under the common name ~Poison Ivy.~ Both climbing and shrub-like forms of T. radicans are common throughout eastern North America, with similar growth forms of T. diversilobum confined to the coast of western North America. Toxicodendron vernix is confined to bogs and cooler areas of eastern North America. The effects of dermal exposure for the three species are similar. Depending upon the degree of sensitization, a pruritic erythematous and vesicular rash will develop within hours or days and may persist for up to 10 days. A linear rash distribution is particularly suggestive of Toxicodendron dermatitis. The treatment is largely symptomatic therapy focused on amelioration of the symptoms. Little or nothing can be done to arrest the process once the exposure has occurred. The value of scrubbing the affected area with soap and water will have no value unless instituted within minutes of the exposure. The entire plant, except the pollen, is toxic throughout the year, even during the winter months when the branches and stems are leafless. Urushiol, a nonvolatile phenolic allergen that acts as a powerful hapten, is contained within the plant~s resin canals and is released when the tissues are injured. Urushiol has as its dermatitis-producing principle pentadecylacatechol. It is estimated that 70% of the United States population would acquire Toxicodendron dermatitis on casual exposure to one of the three species mentioned above. Individuals sensitive to Toxicodendron species may exhibit cross reactions to Japanese lacquer, cashew nut trees, or mango. Contact with these or other genera in the Anacardiaceae should be avoided. The ingestion of Toxicodendron or herbal remedies that contain it can produce life threatening gastroenteritis. Even dermal exposure or inhalation of smoke from burning plant debris containing Toxicodendron can produce severe toxicity. It is a common misconception that the fluid from skin vesicles can spread the rash to other body parts or to other individuals. Medicinally, Toxicodendron has been used to cure eczema and shingles as well as ringworm. The sap, which turns black when exposed to air, was one of the few natural sources of black lacquer dye before the introduction of synthetic dyes. --------*-------- Speaking of folk medicine, medicinal uses of plants...I am not a biology major but have had an interest in this area for some time. Why is it that only one person, James Duke of Dept of Agri., has made a major effort to compile comprehensive lists of medicinal plants uses? Is it possible that modern American medicine has assumptions that run contrary to even the examination of historical and folk use? At the least, by now, I would hope for a large d-base perhaps a CD ROM of thousands of medicinally used plants both in U.S. and abroad, something easily accessible for public search, such as Med Line. Especially as world and American species are being eliminated so quickly. ---------*-------- Here's a "preventative" method for the skin... If you think you have been exposed, wash with hot water (as hot as you can tolerate) and Fels Naptha soap. The soap is horrible on the skin, but it has something which breaks up the oil of the poison. Also, wash the clothes in hot water immediately. The rash from poison ivy can take up to 72 hours to appear after exposure, and is often spread on the body by taking showers while the oils are still on the skin. (The oils often stay on your hands, on the palms in the creases. You usually don't get poison on the palms because the skin is so tough, but you spread it everywhere just by touching.) From: Ecology Center Fund Subject: Re: poison ivy/sumack/oak Date: 28 Apr 92 15:12:00 GMT Look for a product in your supermarket or outdoor goods store called Tecnu. It's nothing short of miraculous. It prevents AND alleviates the rash. Not 100 % effective, but hey, what do you want, a perfect world? :) --------*-------- How to recognize PI/PS/PO: POISON IVY (Toxicodendron radicans = Rhus radicans = Rhus toxicodendron) Found in a wide range of habitats, but in the midwest often seen in disturbed woods, roadsides, and flood plains. Most widespread of PI, PS, and PO. Small, slightly woody plant, or shrubby, or vining. LEAVES ALTERNATE (= 1 leaf per node), TRIFOLIOLATE (=3 leaflets), with pedicel (leafstalk) and the CENTRAL LEAFLET WITH PETIOLULE (=leaflet stalk). The lateral two leaflets are not distinctly stalked. Leaflets are a variety of shapes, but generally ovate or obovate (roughly apple-leaf shaped). Leaflets may be smooth-edged (entire), irregularly toothed, or shallowly lobed. Leaves of one variant form looking like small oak-leaves (but look again!). Leaves apple-green and shiny in the spring, deep green and often dusty in the summer, turning a glorious reddish orange in the fall. Flowers tiny, whitish, in clusters; fruits white berries in late summer or fall. Closest look-alike: Box-elder seedlings (Acer negundo), which has OPPOSITE, trifoliolate leaves; the lateral two leaflets are often slightly stalked. Older box-elders generally have 5 leaflets per leaf. POISON SUMAC (Toxicodendron vernix = Rhus vernix) Shrub, to perhaps 15-20 ft tall, often branched from the base. LEAVES ALTERNATE WITH 7-13 LEAFLETS, lateral leaflets without a petiolule (leaflet stalk), TERMINAL LEAFLET WITH A STALK. MIDRIB OF THE LEAF WITHOUT A PAIR OF WINGS OF TISSUE THAT RUN BETWEEN LEAFLET PAIRS. More small, whitish berries in a long cluster. Usually in wetlands, Maine to Minnesota, south to Texas and Florida. Closest look-alikes: Staghorn sumac, Rhus typhina, which has clusters of fuzzy, red fruits and toothed leaflets, and likes dry soils; Smooth sumac, Rhus glabra, with bright red fruits and slightly toothed leaves; much drier soil than PS. POISON OAK: (Toxicodendron diversiloba = Rhus diversiloba). Reputedly the worst of the bunch. Erect shrub, usually about 3-6ft tall (to 12 ft!), bushy, with ALTERNATE LEAVES OF THREE LEAFLETS, the LEAFLETS generally lobed slightly or as much as an oak leaf; CENTRAL LEAFLET STALKED. Leaves generally bright, shiny green above, paler below. Fruits are small whitish berries. Common on the west coast, esp. low places, thickets and wooded slopes. Occasionally a 5-leafleted form is found. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI --- Ron Rushing --- Technology Cordinator === Education Media Center Stephen F. Austin State University Box 6172 Nacogdoches, TX 75962 VOICE 409) 468-1424 FAX 409) 468-1573 rrushing@sfasu.edu Article 6718 of bionet.plants: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!peach!root From: Scott Ranger Newsgroups: bionet.plants Subject: Re: Poison Ivy - FAQ/Info needed Date: 5 Jun 1995 01:30:58 GMT Organization: Access America, P.O. Box 1222, Alpharetta, GA 30239-1222 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3qtmoi$4hk@peach.america.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-20.america.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) I can't offer any literature help for you, but years of field experience has taught me a few things. The active ingredient for the "poison" is urhusiol, a rather unvolatile oil contained in the sap of the plant. The same chemical is found in all poisonous species of the genus Rhus (=Toxicodendron), as well as the Florida poison tree (Metopium toxiferum). Since the chemical doesn't change, the toxicity of the plant does not vary other than with times of very active sap movement and plant growth. A large number of poison oak/ivy cases occur in the early spring when not much more than stems are out, but the sap is rising and thus available to reach skin when stems are bruised. Young leaves are more fragile and thus the oil is more easily tranismitted to skin. People do not recognize the stems since most only look for "leaflets three, let it be." Dogs and cats are a problem, because as they wander the woods, they easily pick up the oil on their coats (generally preventing their dermatitis) and transmit it to humans when they pet the animal. The growing season varies with the local climate. Here in Georgia (USA), the winter stick phase is very apparent in January/February and the first flush of leaves come as early as late February in south GA and early March in north GA. Further north it will leaf out later. This chemical is found to some degree in just about every species in the Anacardiaceae, the sumac family. Some people get dermatitis from cashew nuts! There are some drugs that claim to offer resitance. I have no experience with them and cannot comment, but I'm very skeptical. Many years of stomping in the fields and woods and I've only gotten poison ivy from my own yard doing gardening! A watchful eye is the best prevention! Article 7377 of bionet.plants: Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!biosci!rutgers!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!news From: BARKLEYT@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (Tim Barkley) Newsgroups: bionet.plants Subject: Re: poision ivy control Date: 25 Jul 1995 03:38:56 GMT Organization: Ohio State University Extension Lines: 7 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3v1p0g$ki2@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <3utmcs$6e4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS v1.25 In-Reply-To: reggierobe@aol.com's message of 23 Jul 1995 10:29:48 -0400 In <3utmcs$6e4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> reggierobe@aol.com writes: > try roundup (Glyphosate) as a treatment for P.I. Or try a 50% solution of bleach sprayed directly on the p.i. plant with a small spray bottle. Works everytime.