BAD PLACE FOR SURVIVALIST NEWSGROUP DISCUSSIONS From: rihannasmr@aol.com (RihannaSMR) Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Bad Place for Survivalists.... Date: 19 Aug 1996 23:10:44 -0400 Not sure who or where the info on Ft. Detrick came from, but unless they have taken down the building and equipment, one of the major Satellite stations on the East Coast is located there and it is entirely militarily run (DCA - Defense Comunications Agency). Also USAMRIID is located there (name may have changed since I was stationed there) and it is also entirely militarily run. Nice area of the country though, getting a little overcrowded out that way with the invention of the automobile and D.C being so close but nice area anyway. Yes, it is a military base, but it's administrative and medical military rather than military-military; has a minimum of soldier-types and security is scarily lax. I'm working on a project for army telemedicine up there. And yes, it's a georgeous area. Hills, yum . . . Sabrah From: Dunross@dkeep.com (A. T. Hagan) Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Bad Place for Survivalists.... Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:51:45 GMT josephx@ix.netcom.com(X Marks The Spot) wrote: Good thread. If the big one hit...for Florida my guess is the following conditions for emergency travelers: You had better be way ahead of the pack if you live in SE Fl(Miami to Palm Beach). Too many people, too many dangerous people, and nowhere to go. How many people could survive off of swamp or scrub land? Not many. Hmm, assuming I thought it wise to bug out in the first place, if I didn't manage to get out well ahead of time from the greater metro Dade-Broward county area I'd plan on staying put for at least a couple of days. By then, the madness and hysteria should have peaked and a quick witted and properly prepared individual should be able to get himself & his people out of the area. I'd make certain that I had enough fuel on had to get all vehicles being used to the state line without the need to acquire more fuel. The extra fuel is for when you have to make long detours to get around obstacles. I'd make sure that I had a copy of DeLorme's Atlas and Gazetteer and county/city maps for the entire area I thought I'd want to go through. I'd also make certain I had a good come along or winch (both!) as well as cable and chain for moving dead vehicles out of the way if necessary. It's entirely possible to get out of SE Florida if you're quick witted, resourceful and don't panic when whatever it is that's going to happen hits. SW FL.(Naples to just below Tampa) see portion above concerning swamp. And not a hell of a lot of secondary and tertiary roads either. My secondary/tertiary planning would involve biking or walking out of the area along the right of way of the roads. St. Pete is a penisula and very crowded,egress may be a problem as in all urban areas. Tampa and Orlando(Central Fl) are populous, sprawling areas but your chances go up in arriving somewhere else less populated and probably better able to support refugees. If I lived in the St. Pete peninsula area (south of the Anclote river) I'd plan on having at *least* some truck inner tubes and a pump to inflate them with as part of my tertiary evac planning. Between the river, lake Tarpon, the lake Tarpon canal and Safety Harbor the peninsula is now effectively an island and for the amount of population on it, there's just not enough bridges off of it to suit me at all. I'd have a backup plan for getting off by water, if just to float across the river, lake or harbor. Better yet, I wouldn't live in the St. Pete area to begin with, it's been overcrowded for a long time now. Tampa would be a mess to get out of, but you can always walk out if you must and you could foot it to most of central Florida in a couple of days or less. Orlando would be even easier. Gainesville to Jacksonville(NE Fl) in or close to forrested areas. Large numbers of people could thin out quickly in forrest. Chances of living off the land may be good if you make it by the urban gangstas and are somewhat prepared to live outdoors. They'd be coming right back out of those woods in short order too I think. I've lived here all of my life and know the edible plant species pretty well, but I'd be hard pressed to live off the land in the sand pine/palmetto scrub that comprise most of the remaining forest. Privately owned land has a lot more ecological diversity and I'd have an easier time of it, but private land presents its own problems. Now those urban gangstas wouldn't be much of a problem at all. I don't know about SE Florida, but we just don't have that many of them up here in the Northern end of the state, even in Jacksonville. Not even if you count the number of wannabe's in with them. Considering the number of households that own guns in this state, those so called bad boys would be crying for law and order to keep them from going extinct. NW FL is sparsely populated and I can assure you that if we don't want large crowds visiting all of a sudden, the Suwannee River is not that easy to drive over with only two major bridges in a 100 mile length. So I guess you were right, but for different reasons-the big bridge to the Mich UP wouldn't be closed because of pile-ups, the people who live there will shut it down first. True enough, and for those of us who live on the eastern side of those bridges we keep that in mind too. Your problems aren't going to be coming from the South though, they'll be coming from the West and the North. I don't think anyone should get too free with blowing bridges though. There's any number of groups and organizations that would think very poorly of the idea and they wouldn't be stopped by a river. Look, the above are just thoughts-I'll be happy to explain further if anyone is interested. BTW, anyone care to discuss their state/region in this way? For Florida: Don't plan on using any interstate highway for any scenario where the orderly evacuation of large masses of people would not be possible. By this I mean, if it's a hurricane, then you'd be OK to use one, the various law enforcement agencies do a pretty fair job of keeping the hurricane evacuation routes open. If it's a nuclear strike threat warning then the state and local agencies will probably be overwhelmed in short order. Same thing for the U.S. highways anywhere near urban areas and major state and county roads. Get the DeLorme atlas and local maps and plan routes using as many back roads as possible. Think *long and hard* before making the decision to bug out. Unless you have a specific destination in mind, know the reception you're going to get when you get there and know how it is that you're going to get there, then you may just be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. It's awfully easy to get into the bug out mentality without thinking things all the way through. .........Alan. e-mail c/o dunross@dkeep.com Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Re: Bad Place for Survivalists.... Date: 15 Aug 1996 00:35:21 -0400 On 9 Aug 1996 00:34:37 GMT, pyotr filipivich (pyotr@chinook.halcyon.com) wrote: josephx@ix.netcom.com(X Marks The Spot) writes: }The UP of Michigan is sparse in population, abundant in wildlife. Many }city people probably know intuitively to go to such a spot. Or at }least to escape the urban areas where all hell will break loose. A lot of those urban hordes will not know squat about getting back to the land, even those who have hunted "for years". You can't live off I doubt that any Yoopers will worry much about the Trolls. They'll all die off during the first winter... (did I mention that we get lots of snow UP here? And that it gets pretty cold?). Oh yeah, we have a damn short growing season, too... Realistically, one would be better to move south, if a full crunch hit. At least there you could survive a winter with no heat and lots of blankets. (I have a friend down in W.VA. who has only a wood stove; he says that he rarely if ever fires it up) MREs and canned goods forever, and some folks will think they're entitled to help. And if Uncle isn't there to make the distribution, they'll do it themselves. Well, those hordes might be in for a a bit of a "surprise" were they to try to re-distribute the UP's supplies themselves... There's a reason why the crime rate in the UP is so low... ;) I'm not so sanguine about a spontanious relocation to the "rural" areas. Those underpopulated areas are that way for good reasons - carrying capacity of the land being what it is. That's economic capacity too, not to mention the food supply. Nope, it won't be pretty, In the UP's case, it has that problem, as well as long, hard, cold winters. The cold will increase your need for the already scarce food. Shelter is rather limited also (you don't really expect locals to open up their houses for you to stay, do you?). Without shelter, the winter will probably kill you. Charles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu From: skroege@nswc.navy.mil (Steven J. Kroeger) Subject: Re: Bad Place for Survivalists.... Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER In article <32110B73.3FFA@rrgroup.com , Will Flor